The Really Mobile Project - Latest Comments in Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

MichaelF — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 23:32:00 -0000

well im just getting this amazing mobile from http://www.puremobile.co.uk/Apple/Apple-iPhone-... it comes already unlocked and i believe also with the latest OS

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

pfig — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 18:04:55 -0000

Ah, I wasn't clear enough: I specifically asked about the pricing, and two different O2 employees told me it would be just like with the previous upgrade, I'd just have to pay the price of the iPhone on my current plan. So I'm writing them a very angry email (unfortunately this was at an O2 store, if it had been over the phone I could ask them to go listen to the recording) and reminding them that those 5 years of exclusivity will eventually run out.

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

pfig — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 12:04:55 -0000

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

Mac Morrison — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:30:44 -0000

In short, you aren't going to get an unlimited connection, but if the ASA grew some stones you might just get rid of that word... for a while.

And theres the rub, toothless lions.
see also offcom.

though more complaints across the board *may* help.
but frankly even the gadget shows attempt to change the use of unlimited - did nothing :(

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

Matt Heath — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:44:24 -0000

Hence why the Canadian Mobile Operators are amongst the most profitable in the world currently.

http://www.researchandmarkets.com/reports/99202...

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

Matt Heath — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:42:07 -0000

Hence why the Canadian market is amongst the most profitable mobile markets in the world.

http://www.researchandmarkets.com/reports/99202...

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

juliancooling — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:15:58 -0000

My problem is that all of these company's are forcing their users onto 18 month and 24 month contracts for a phone with a very, very public upgrade cycle of 1 year.

I am fine with them offering longer term contracts for those who want them but all great contracts are all about setting and meeting expectations. People who are forking out for the iPhone may well want an "auto-upgrade" package with a 1 year hardware upgrade built in.

From O2's persepctive that's great: do the maths and price a package with a bell or a whistle (even both) and put it on the market. It's the only package half the people I know with an iPhone would want. Heck, they may even sign up for a 3 year contract if the hardware was sent out by post on release day direct from the factory.

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

Mac Morrison — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:30:44 -0000

In short, you aren't going to get an unlimited connection, but if the ASA grew some stones you might just get rid of that word... for a while.

And theres the rub, toothless lions.
see also offcom.

though more complaints across the board *may* help.
but frankly even the gadget shows attempt to change the use of unlimited - did nothing :(

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

Matt Heath — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:44:24 -0000

Hence why the Canadian Mobile Operators are amongst the most profitable in the world currently.

http://www.researchandmarke...

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

Matt Heath — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:42:07 -0000

Hence why the Canadian market is amongst the most profitable mobile markets in the world.

http://www.researchandmarke...

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

juliancooling — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:15:58 -0000

My problem is that all of these company's are forcing their users onto 18 month and 24 month contracts for a phone with a very, very public upgrade cycle of 1 year.

I am fine with them offering longer term contracts for those who want them but all great contracts are all about setting and meeting expectations. People who are forking out for the iPhone may well want an "auto-upgrade" package with a 1 year hardware upgrade built in.

From O2's persepctive that's great: do the maths and price a package with a bell or a whistle (even both) and put it on the market. It's the only package half the people I know with an iPhone would want. Heck, they may even sign up for a 3 year contract if the hardware was sent out by post on release day direct from the factory.

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

DanLane — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:38:06 -0000

Before I start, I want you to know that I like you Josh. I enjoy the rare times we get to meet up and I especially enjoyed putting the world to rights last time I saw you. So keep that in mind and know that I'm not just trolling and that this is a genuine response.

Much of what you've written here is hot air, by that I mean it panders to the vacant popular opinion without addressing the actual issues. Casual observers will read this and think "Fuck yeah, why aren't the operators listening to this guy?" and will leave an encouraging post before moving on and not giving it much more thought.

What you've done is told us that you're pissed off with operators and you've told us why but you haven't really put yourself in the operators boots (and they are some large boots!) and imagined what you'd have to deal with in order to get things fixed without sinking the company.

First up, the use of the word unlimited. Let's say you're O2 and you decide to stop using the wording "UNLIMITED" on your marketing material. Congratulations. You get no new customers because everyone goes with the providers still offering "UNLIMITED" packages instead of your own packages which are no longer competitive. Ok you can't stop using the word "UNLIMITED" so you offer mobile broadband access that is truly unlimited. Your users can download whatever they want and instantly the sheep like idiots that make up the general population are instilled with an unjustified sense of entitlement to download as much shit as they possibly can. Your network reaches capacity, grinds to a halt and you get called names by the same idiots that are responsible in the first place while you spend a shitload of cash putting in the extra capacity. This has already happened in the broadband industry. Do you know how many people actually offer truly "UNLIMITED" broadband? hardly anyone! certainly not anyone using BT's wholesale packages - they simply can't afford it. Ironically do you know who is actually offering truly unlimited home broadband? Yup! it's O2! (through their Be connections) and that's not really a business model that stacks up AND it still has a fair use policy!. Andrews and Arnold are a proper small-ish business running an ISP. They have talented people in both business and technical sense. They can't offer a truly unlimited home broadband package because they'll be shafted by their own customers and because of this they often lose customers to companies such as Be who are backed by large companies willing to throw money into this.

Sorry, got carried away... where was I? Ahh yes, proper unlimited mobile data connections... basically it can't be done without shafting the business. It doesn't work in fixed-line where the infrastructure costs are far lower and it won't work in mobile for a long time to come. Ultimately it's the greedy end users are to blame.

You really should be annoyed at the advertising standards authority. They are the only people who can turn around and put a blanket over the whole industry and stop the word "UNLIMITED" being used. Until then you aren't likely to get a maverick network come along and stop using it and to ask them to is like asking them to shoot themselves in the face... twice.

In short, you aren't going to get an unlimited connection, but if the ASA grew some stones you might just get rid of that word... for a while.

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

adambird — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 00:46:02 -0000

Excellent commentary. The notion of a business having to make money, even if they are a big-bad network operator is notably missing from many articles from many 'thought leaders' in this space.

I don't think that the WHO have designated the iPhone as fundamental to living quite yet. So, until they do all those whinging about 'excessive charges' for this and 'outraged at pricing' for that have the oldest option in the free market book, ie don't buy it.

I'm pretty non-plussed about the new phone which is exactly why O2 have decided not to offer me an incentive to prolong my contract. So, I'll make do. Well, actually I'll probably try and convince my wife to ditch her BlackBerry for a iPhone 3GS and then convince her that she wouldn't make use of the extra battery life as much as I would.

Can't help but cast my mind forward to next year now, just so long as the battery lasts out.

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

Ben Smith — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 00:14:24 -0000

No, they're not taking it back... the guy is entirely right. You can just buy a new iPhone 3GS outright and swap the SIM over.

You will, however, have to pay the full unsubsidised price for the newer handset (i.e. the PAYG price)... just as you would if you wanted to upgrade before the end of any other contract.

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

pfig — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 23:17:44 -0000

As for tethering (a complete rip-off, IMO). just because O2 *can* be blood-sucking leeches, I don't feel it's in their best interests to do so, at least to the extent they want to retain and build a loyal customer base.

Other than that, I got NetShare before it got yanked from the App Store, so O2 can suck my f*cking lizard :)

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

Mike42 — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 23:17:20 -0000

"an api to allow devs to warn users through their apps about coming close to data limits.. a million times wrong."

er...why? What's wrong with this idea? Your fav app, the one you have open all the time, with the ability to warn you? For years people have whined about NOT having easy visibility of your usage, now O2 offer to enable it, for all to use, and you don't like it. I'm confused.

Also, it's a numbers game. Think: mobile broadband growth is the ONLY thing paying for all your 3G love. 115% penetration or whatever. Voice/Text is maxed out, and will only get cheaper. ARPU always falls. So in dongles, MNO's have something (the ONLY thing) they can generate extra revenue off. Not mobile TV. Not dating. Not any other off-the-wall ideas.

Guess what Josh - you cannot build a business case for 3G investment if you cannot make more money off it.

The dongle costs circa $70. If they can convince you to use your phone, great. But you gotta pay somehow. The 'Unlimited' data on your phone costs - what - £5? And you can't use *that* much. But 'Unlimited' on a laptop? Melt that BTS sucka! (sorry, came over all A-Team for a sec there).

This is all factored in. £5 for unlimited on your phone, £15 for unlimited on your laptop (via dongle or tether - no difference really). 'cos you use a hell of a lot more on a laptop.

If someone holding a party offers unlimited drinks (byo glass), you don't expect someone to turn up with a yardglass.

So don't get upset when the MNO politely asks for some more cash to cover the much larger volume of data you are consuming. And yes, 'Unlimited' sucks. No-one should have ever started using it. I hate the idea. We do not have infinite spectrum. Anyone who thinks they deserve unlimited is wrong. There have to be caps or everyone looses when 1% start running P2P apps.

/m

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

pfig — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 23:15:31 -0000

I got my iPhone at the end of March, and got the cheapest one as I knew a new model would be out in a matter of months. I *explicitly* asked about upgrading to the new model (at the High Street Kensington station O2 shop) and I was told "Absolutely, you'll just need to pay for the new phone".

If they're taking that back now, I'll be extremely pissed off.

As for the pricing, it's ridiculous that Apple brings it down and O2 moves the entry level from £99 to £184 (and no, the old 3G model doesn't count as entry level as far as I'm concerned - it's "refurbished", at best).

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

Mike42 — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 22:55:35 -0000

only if you use the APN they give you...

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

Mike42 — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 22:54:25 -0000

What - be afraid of publicity? Like Apple has been for the last 2 years of near-continuous drubbing at the hands of the techno-weenies?

Cut to suburban lounge, circa 2006, about 10:15pm...Marge has just bought Steve in a cup of nice hot tea, and a BBC techno journo is just about launch into a polemic about the new iPhone...

whinewhinenobluetoothheadsetprofilewhine OOOOO SHINY NEW PHONE LOOK AT THAT DEAR whinewhingebleatmoannoappsupportnotetheringbleat ISN'T IT NICE? howlybagsulknocutnpastesob LOOK AT THAT SCREEN gaaanoremovablebatterymylifeisover MIGHT POP DOWN TO O2 TOMORROW LUV....

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

joshr — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:51:25 -0000

and another thing!...

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

Denny — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:41:42 -0000

*applause* :)

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

Mike Bradshaw — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 20:27:12 -0000

That comment practically is a blog post in and of itsel sir, well said.

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

DanLane — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 19:38:06 -0000

Much of what you've written here is hot air, by that I mean it panders to the vacant popular opinion without addressing the actual issues. Casual observers will read this and think "Fuck yeah, why aren't the operators listening to this guy?" and will leave an encouraging post before moving on and not giving it much more thought.

What you've done is told us that you're pissed off with operators and you've told us why but you haven't really put yourself in the operators boots (and they are some large boots!) and imagined what you'd have to deal with in order to get things fixed without sinking the company.

First up, the use of the word unlimited. Let's say you're O2 and you decide to stop using the wording "UNLIMITED" on your marketing material. Congratulations. You get no new customers because everyone goes with the providers still offering "UNLIMITED" packages instead of your own packages which are no longer competitive. Ok you can't stop using the word "UNLIMITED" so you offer mobile broadband access that is truly unlimited. Your users can download whatever they want and instantly the sheep like idiots that make up the general population are instilled with an unjustified sense of entitlement to download as much shit as they possibly can. Your network reaches capacity, grinds to a halt and you get called names by the same idiots that are responsible in the first place while you spend a shitload of cash putting in the extra capacity. This has already happened in the broadband industry. Do you know how many people actually offer truly "UNLIMITED" broadband? hardly anyone! certainly not anyone using BT's wholesale packages - they simply can't afford it. Ironically do you know who is actually offering truly unlimited home broadband? Yup! it's O2! (through their Be connections) and that's not really a business model that stacks up AND it still has a fair use policy!. Andrews and Arnold are a proper small-ish business running an ISP. They have talented people in both business and technical sense. They can't offer a truly unlimited home broadband package because they'll be shafted by their own customers and because of this they often lose customers to companies such as Be who are backed by large companies willing to throw money into this.

Sorry, got carried away... where was I? Ahh yes, proper unlimited mobile data connections... basically it can't be done without shafting the business. It doesn't work in fixed-line where the infrastructure costs are far lower and it won't work in mobile for a long time to come, if ever. Ultimately it's the greedy end users that are to blame.

You really should be annoyed at the advertising standards authority. They are the only people who can turn around and put a blanket over the whole industry and stop the word "UNLIMITED" being used. Until then you aren't likely to get a maverick network come along and stop using it and to ask them to is like asking them to shoot themselves in the face... twice.

In short, you aren't going to get an unlimited connection, but if the ASA grew some stones you might just get rid of that word... for a while.

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

adambird — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:46:02 -0000

Excellent commentary. The notion of a business having to make money, even if they are a big-bad network operator is notably missing from many articles from many 'thought leaders' in this space.

I don't think that the WHO have designated the iPhone as fundamental to living quite yet. So, until they do all those whinging about 'excessive charges' for this and 'outraged at pricing' for that have the oldest option in the free market book, ie don't buy it.

I'm pretty non-plussed about the new phone which is exactly why O2 have decided not to offer me an incentive to prolong my contract. So, I'll make do. Well, actually I'll probably try and convince my wife to ditch her BlackBerry for a iPhone 3GS and then convince her that she wouldn't make use of the extra battery life as much as I would.

Can't help but cast my mind forward to next year now, just so long as the battery lasts out.

Re: Thoughts on O2's iPhone 3GS offering

Ben Smith — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:14:24 -0000

No, they're not taking it back... the guy is entirely right. You can just buy a new iPhone 3GS outright and swap the SIM over.

You will, however, have to pay the full unsubsidised price for the newer handset (i.e. the PAYG price)... just as you would if you wanted to upgrade before the end of any other contract.