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I agree with Ben, you shouldn't have to wait for software upgrades - as much as I dislike the iPhone, at least it was mostly feature complete out of the box.
I haven't played with the N97 - it reminds me too much of the N810; great hardware, disappointing software, lousy keyboard.
Now admittedly I probably use my phone a hundred times as often as the N810 (although they're both turned on 24/7), but that's still 'lots of crashes' vs 'absolutely none'. I'm really disappointed that Nokia haven't ditched Symbian in favour of working with Android, and as soon as someone puts Android onto some decent hardware on a decent network, I'll be jumping ship.
Incidentally, why are Nokia still shipping top-end phones with mid-range cameras - is the camera from the N82 really too big to fit into the N97? I like the N82 camera, downgrading from it is going to hurt.
http://shkspr.mobi/blog/index.php/2009/05/nitdr...
http://shkspr.mobi/blog/index.php/2009/05/nitdr...
Enjoy.
Btw, was that filmed next to Teddington Lock by any chance? The surroundings looked pretty familiar...
I never, ever buy in store as you more often than not get the worse deal.
Also, I just called Vodafone and asked:
"My friend is thinking of leaving o2 and is considering the N97, how much would it be?"
"Depending on what bundle he had, we would definitely try and make it free."
"What does that mean?"
"£35-£40pcm on an 18-24mth contract"
"Cool, thanks."
Tell the VF store they're talking crap and ask for a better deal, they're on comission remember?
EDIT - "Free On Pay monthly plans from £40"
http://shop.vodafone.co.uk/shop/mobile-phone/no...
James Vincent
Just came across this AMAZING offer on the N97. Free N97 Black, £45 a month, 1200 Minutes, Unlimited Landlines, Unlimited Texts, 500MB Internet all on a 18 month contract!
The fact that a stylus is included shows nothing about the overall interface. You'd be hard pressed to seriously maintain that S60v5 is not a finger-friendly system. Even the 5800XM, with its smaller screen, includes a stylus, but the only thing I've *ever* had to use it for was to remove the SIM card.
When I asked the N97 Product team about the stylus at Nokia World 2009, when the phone was announced, they said the stylus is only really included for handwriting recognition, and they're right.
I *do* maintain S60 5th edition is not finger friendly *enough* (relative to the rest of the market). You can cope, but I was hitting 50% error rates on certain scroll bars and in more precision selections, such as correcting text.
Power users will adapt, especially of the device has other desirable features, but I really expected Nokia's effort to be so much better... I could forgive the 5800XM due to price, but not the N97.
But did I enjoy having a dig...? You bet ;-)
it becomes way more responsive and satisfying with a stylus.
resistive screens need stylus
capacitive screens love fingers
S60 5th edition isnt finger friendly.
Sorry to hear about the N86 - *very* surprised. Aside from the camera s/w the proto we had for about a week was impressively stable.
Nokia, Samsung, Motorola, whoever have all been completely blown out of the water by Apple & Google. Even if you are a die hard Symbian fan you either have to be mildly brain dead or employed by Nokia to even claim Symbian can hold a candle in the wind to iPhone & android. It can't.
Until Samsung etc start releasing android devices - which is the only OS that can hope to compete with Apple - they are simply off the map...
which brings me nicely to my second point.
What's the point in reviewing new [insert-temp-dead-device-manufacturer-her] devices? I just don't see it. Sure Nokia release some cool hardware now and then. But the OS is for all intents and purposes the same old vibe. Add to that the fact that handset reviews are a dime-a-dozen these days. When I look at devices in stores I expect the review to read: "Nokia NXX. Same old Symbian malarkey. Cool slide out keyboard. Decent camera. the end."
I'm not trying to be testy here. I really like The Really Mobile Project you guys do some excellent work. But I find I only watch the handset review-type-posts for the banter (very good banter in this one guys :) ).
That's my two cents anyway, but I'm a cynic.
Keep up the good work.
...and if we all enjoy ourselves along the way? Bonus.
But I agree about your point about the screen sensitivity. Apps on iPhone rock too !
Regarding the stylus , i had a chance to meet the designer Axel Meyer himself and he told me that the stylus was meant only for handwriting recognition.
N97 beats the iphone on battery life , connectivity , camera , keyboard :-)
The stylus may only have been intended for handwriting, but that just makes some of the UI elements even worse, because I didn't find them usable without it!
In Europe and Asia the market is still way more interested in HW features than available apps, however, that is changing slowly but surely.
Never used a resistive screen that came remotely close to giving the fluidity of any capacitive device.
The Android on-screen keyboard uses about 45% of the screen just for the alphabet. For Windows Mobile it's a mere 25% - including numbers and symbols. Obviously the super sexy winmo keyboard requires a stylus, but I can live with that.
Phone's in the post to you tomorrow.
Really difficult to use. Awaiting @msjen's verdict of the N86 after she gets done playing with it. Like that it has an 8 mp camera and the white version looks good enough to tongue ;) gonna weigh my option carefully before replacing my N95.
Using those same internal specs from the N97 on a 3rd Edition FP2 device like the N86 makes it much more passable as a new device for 09 instead of the old-tech mashup that is the N97.
Personally, I used to have a N95 8GB, and I thought it was a great phone, the only downside was battery life.
I then got hold of an E71, and frankly, it has been a superb phone, with the qwerty keyboard being very easy to use.
At the moment, I am sitting on the fence between the N97, or the iPhone 3GS, (I would hold out for a Palm Pre, after reading: http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i... but I don't think we will see it over here before the new year). The main problem over her in Ireland is that while the iPhone has very good carrier presence (on O2, which by the way is now operating a separate "add-on" for MMS messages on the iPhone), the N97 is nowhere to be seen, short of buying it from Expansys.
So, it looks like nokia will lose out over here in Ireland to the iPhone, and I, along with many others, will probably go with the iPhone.
Phil
The NOKIA Sweden Customer Scare is posted @ http://sweden101.wordpress.com
The NOKIA Sweden Customer Scare is posted @ http://sweden101.wordpress.com
one thing i'd just like to point out tho, and it's quite an interesting point. The N97 comes with a stylus included in the box (i have one myself and to add, i'm very disappointed!), but...the phone comes with a stylus.....where on earth do you attach it to the phone??? I've had a good look and cant find anywhere to attach it! hilarious....you are right, its a very 'last minute idea' to include the stylus...they didnt even think about the fact that they didnt design a loop for the thing! hahah! oh dear.
Like you? ;-)
As you pointed out the iPhone is simple, and it's a fact that Apple created the iPhone for simple masses. You can always spot an iPhone user. They the ones trying to show off their phones with their ponsie white headphone cables sticking out of their coats or jackets. Doesn't the iPhone support bluetooth headsets or support A2DP? (now that would be clever).
If you were clever (like Ben and myself) you'd have both the iPhone and N97 in order to make an informed decision about which one to use. I have handsets coming out of my ears and I choose the iPhone again and again. On paper it's not perfect but on a day by day basis it's a lot better than the competition.
For the last few weeks, I've had an iPhone, N97, G1, HTC Magic, N82 and a Treo Pro (yuk) on me all the time.... All I'm saying is that when it counts I go back to the iPhone or G1 (although other reservations about the G1 mean I don't recommend it to non geeks yet).
I have - for several weeks - plus time with several prototypes as far back as February.
I didn't say the iPhone was simple, I said it was pleasurable to use.... and you mis-spelt 'poncey' but I'll forgive you that ;-)
If you could kindly send me an iPhone I would gladly give it the once over and honestly blog about it. What would be a day by day comparison? (iPhone versus N97)?
What do you use your iPhone for besides the obvious? Could you even consider the iPhone as a smartphone? What does it do smartly? (haha)...
I have a Nokia N95 and the 5800XM and they are two of the greatest phones ever made. In fact amazingly enough the 5800XM beats the iPhone in the recent "Phoneshow 82" over at AllaboutSymbian.
I never said the N97 is excellent (the word excellent is reserved for the N95). :-)
The iPhone is the smartest phone out there... without any modification it's a consumer friendly handset with a vast range of third party applications available for it. With a slight modification it becomes a tiny computer running EXACTLY the same operating system as my Mac desktop.... doesn't come much smarter than that! Not even Android (which runs the Linux kernal but lacks any of the userspace tools that make a GNU/Linux system usable) can claim to do that.
Did I say consumer "friendly"? What I meant by that is it LOVES the consumer, like a cheap whore it convinces the user to hand over the money and touch it... cunningly with the app store it convinces the user to pay some more to touch it in different ways. There are loads of users who have had Nokia and Sony Ericsson smartphones who never installed any third party apps before they moved to the iPhone.
Apple's innovation isn't with megapixels or MMS, it's with getting normal everyday people USING most of the feature on their phone. It's the way the interface doesn't make them feel stupid for not knowing what "symbian signing" is or how to "bluetooth a JAD file" to their handset.
Even hacking the iPhone is easy... unless you do something very naughty to the baseband the thing is nearly impossible to brick.
I'd wager you like the N95 and the 5800XM because you invested time and effort in learning the quirks of S60. You sat through several hours of initial frustration learning how to configure S60 and now your a ninja at those menus... try doing something you've never done before like configuring the S60 SIP client and you'll remember the frustration you first experienced when you got your hands on S60 for the very first time... of course, back then there wasn't much else worth bothering with so it made sense to invest the time and effort in learning it... now, times have changed and you have an alternative.
So you've never used an iPhone either? LOL
I respect the All About Symbian guys very much - Rafe's helped us a lot here at Really Mobile, but we don't agree about everything.
What would be a day by day usage comparison? (iPhone versus N97)?
Ben, all you did was rubbish the N97 in the video unlike James who gave valid reasons as to why it was good. Give us some facts as to what is better on the iPhone versus the N97, that would be a better comparison.
What do you use your phone for on a daily basis besides the obvious texting, phonecalls, twittering, blogging, gaming etc?
Good site though, I look forward to your next posting. Maybe you guys can do a comparison of the iPhone, N86, N97, 5800, The new samsung Android and the i8510.
I said why the iPhone is a better general touch-screen choice - it's a pleasure to use for routine tasks. I also recommended the N86 as a power handset.
I was just reading your review
http://www.lookatbowen.com/2009/05/the-nokia-58...
And I noticed a striking similarity between the image that you used and this one, (from my photostream).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/whatleydude/347697...
It is clear these images are one and the same and, as ALL of my flickr photos are shared under Creative Commons, may I suggest changing your post accordingly as currently there is no attribution to the original source.
You can read more about Creative Commons right here - http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/deed...
Let me know when it's fixed.
Thanks.
Many thanks for the link and this is a very interesting topic off the original topic.
The image in question. I use a Wordpress plugin called Insights on my blog, and it is this plug-in that is pulling your "claimed” image from Flickr.... You can right click on the image and pull the URL if you like and you will see I am not claiming it to be mine at all. Here is the URL that http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3407/3476977184_... and as you can see it's got a lot of "flickr, farm4, static" mentioned in the URL. I don’t see any mention of “whatelydude”.
I think you need to raise this "creative commons" issue with the author of INSIGHTS (Vladimir Prelovac) or with Flickr themselves, before you go insinuating that I am claiming an image that might belong to you. I too post understand Creative Commons on my various blogs and understand what it means.
With that said, I am not removing the image or putting any attribution to the original source. As far as I am concerned, the original source is Flickr.
I'm sorry??? You're saying as long as an image is on Flickr, you have the right to use it?
YOU have the burden of proof to show that you have the rights to use an image, not the other way around; it's not about proving that you DON'T have the rights to use something. Also, you can't claim ignorance because of a third party plug-in; if you CHOOSE to use it, you assume responsibility for it. If someone has pointed out that it is acting illegally, you should choose to remove it.
And clearly, those are the same image. To try to argue otherwise seems incredibly petty, especially from someone who creates web content themselves.
I am not claiming ignorance just because it's a third party application, but for the love of gawd, if you think I am going through all my INSIGHT images and giving credit to the original snapper, you can think again. Besides there is no way of knowing from the second the image is selected in INSIGHTS that it belongs to James or not.
Petty... was making a comment about it in the first place and not checking the original link on my site.
In that case you can probably look forward to being sued when you get caught using a fully rights-reserved image taken by a professional photographer.
1. doesn't understand what "licensing" means
2. doesn't understand how the Internet works
3. obviously can't engage in intelligent conversation.
I hope you get sued into oblivion; there are enough ignorant smart-asses on the Internet, you won't be missed.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/whatleydude/347697...
No one has said you should go through all images on your site. We are saying that now you've been informed about this particular photo and it's your legal requirement to correct your page.
I'd go for removing the plugin, not fixing this one instance. The next person whose work he fails to attribute might not be so polite, nor so liberally licensed in the first place.
You have now been notified of the source of the image by both James and myself, I have explained how you can verify the source for yourself and you have been made aware of the terms of the license.
I expect to see correct attribution or the removal of the link as soon as possible.
He's not saying you're claiming it be yours either, he's saying you need to reference your sources properly.
Yes, this should be flagged to the author of Insights, but a simple 'Sorry, I'll add a link to your original photo' would have done.
Flickr is the medium that stores the imagery, it owns nothing and each indivudual is the source.
What a ridiculous stream of ill-informed comments...
The usage on your site requires attribution, fact. The URL makes absolutely no difference.
I think it's pretty obvious that the image you're using is James's. Sadly you've been let down by the Insights tool, leading to you inadvertently breaking the terms of the CC licence. I've been burned by a similar error in the past, where I reposted an image that had been created by someone, from a 3rd party aggregator which stripped out all the attribution info.
James hasn't asked you to take down the image, just to give him his due attribution. It's clear you've not intended to do anything wrong, so it would be great if you could just add an attributive link.
I am going to replace the photo and remove the Insight software.
James Whatley, I apologize for using your photo without permission and I will remove all the other photos as well, as I am sure they belong to you in some way or form.
I've ditched Nokia for a year or two now after being a Series 80 Power User and am now the happy onwer of an HTC Touch Pro2. (Yes I've gone to the dark side - WInMo) And do you know what? It isn't that bad at all!!!
Any chance of a considered opinion on that one, boys?
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/22/nokia-n97-re...
On balance I think that I shall be resisting the temptation to commit to a N97. I shall stick with my wonderfully reliable (and feature rich) E71 - which is now available for a FRACTION of the price of a N97!
The widgets are genius. I'm making a widget that will work on my E71 as well as the 5800/N97 I wish I had, and it's pretty darn simple and is such a powerful part of the standby screen.
JamesVincent (was kevx)
Oeps, Ben is right twice now :-)
It's probably the best video review i've seen.
A very detailed review with a touch of humour aswell.
Also notice the Nokia N97 vs. Touch Pro2 lightsabers at the end of part 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZJe9Nd_wx0
It makes me truly happy to see Ben & James sparring on video. When are we going to see Vikki & Dan sparring on video?
((p.s. I like the keyboard and I do *use* the stylus. ;o) ))
( p.p.s. I will actually be buying the N86 )
p.p.s.s. More cute doggies in videos.
;oD
Agree Vikki and Dan video is overdue... *starts planning*
Noted re: doggies :-)
cheers mate
was looking forward to getting this phone on friday, i really dont want to have to wait!