DISQUS

stevelitchfield · 7 months ago

Err..... what has all this got to do with 'focal length', guys? The focal length is the distance at which objects are perfectly in focus - usually infinity for most Nokia phones.

What you're talking about is how wide the angle of the lens is. Some cameras are 'wider' than others. In my experience, most Nokia Nseries phones produce video images that are too 'wide' - the 5800's unit seems better in this respect.

The comment about the sound being quiet because you're too far away - this is because phone cams tend to use the voice mike, which usually ends up pointing off to the side somewhere. Hence why I shoot my Phones Show inside, or at least in a car, so that the sound is contained and doesn't get lost.

James Whatley · 7 months ago

Oh I see (re: Focal length) - a naming mistake on my part it would seem. I knew what I meant though and from the sounds of it, you did too.

Wording errors aside, I'm not sure what your point is regarding the ineffective way that the 5800 (and N97) 'cuts' a video image to 16:9.

Yes *of course* the mic is facing away, as it does on almost all Nokia handsets. However, unlike almost all Nokia handsets - the 5800 requires the camera to be further away than usual.
Hence the low volume.

The positioning of the mic is inconsequential and not really a valid argument in this instance, wouldn't you agree?

stevelitchfield · 7 months ago

Well, you wouldn't write an article about car number plates but keep referring to the gearstick, would you? Quite an important distinction for us to make about camera terms before your legions of followers all go off repeating the same misunderstanding 8-)

The way widescreen video images are shot is a bit crude, I'll agree. I disagree about the way you're building this all into a major issue though - I've just done tests here with other handsets (E75, N95) and the angle of the 5800's camera optics is only *fractionally* less - I'd never noticed a problem and I've shot hundreds of photos and dozens of videos on this thing.

To return to your forest example, the audio on the N95 or any other phone camera would have struggled in the same way. I just don't think all this is an issue.

Your opening graphic is VERY misleading, by the way, you're comparing a video shot from a pro camera at twice the distance away!!

James Whatley · 7 months ago

It's not a major issue, at all in fact - Just something to be aware of.

I wouldn't call the difference in camera optics 'fractionally less' - the differences between Mark Guim's comparison shots are far from fractional!
I'm certain that you have shot dozens of videos with the 5800, it's not my fault you didn't notice the problem ;)

In all seriousness - it's not a *massive* issue. But if you're considering laying out £500+ for a device that records 16:9 video you want to know all of the ticks and nuances, no?
I make videos with various handsets almost every day and I spotted this issue straight away, as a serious content creator I found it annoying at best and at worst, unusable.

The N95 would of course suffer the same problem, IF it had to be placed so far away just to get a decent two-head shot. But it doesn't. That's my point.

Re: the opening graphic, I'm not comparing anything. I'm using the image to show exactly how far away from my face I was holding the damn thing and yet it still wasn't far enough!

As per the post in fact:
"In the shot on the left you can just about see that I am holding the phone at arm’s length and yet, on the right, you can see the EXTREME CLOSE UP that the 5800 so unnaturally provides"

Cheers.

stevelitchfield · 7 months ago

Yes, I know you talked about the graphic in the text. But the very fact that you use two 'photos', side by side, gives an instant impression that you're using the graphic to illustrate the main point you were making. Which is a bit misleading....

Anyway, time to let the matter drop and let the masses chip in, I think! 8-)

"The Masses" a.k.a Mr. Burland · 7 months ago

Interesting article (and discussion). I tend to carry a large wide-angle lens with me for my HD camcorder. It's quite surprising how much nicer the final results are, especially for large vistas, indoor scenes and group photos or videos.

I used to own a SD Canon camcorder that 'suffered' from an extremely tight angle, it was horrible to use, most indoor video was useless.

As for Nokia devices... The best lens combo that I've ever witnessed was the N93i. But then that isn't too surprising as it was the last to feature optical zoom.

I'd better stop now as I'm starting to get depressed just thinking about the stagnation of video capture in the mobile industry. Help me Omnia HD, you're my only hope! ... Just make sure you fix the frame rate Samsung or they'll be hell to pay!

Nico · 7 months ago

Uh... actually, no. Focal lenght is the right term. It means exactly "how wide the angle of the lens is" (at least for a fixed sensor size). Here's something from good ole' photo.net:

http://photo.net/learn/fov/

stevelitchfield · 7 months ago

No, it doesn't, although admittedly I was wrong too 8-)

Focal length is the intra-camera distance from the centre of the lens to the centre of the sensor etc.. Not sure what the distance I was talking about is called: maybe 'focal point'?

Anyway, the thing James was talking about is, apparently, termed 'field of view'.

So now we all know!

DanLane · 7 months ago

Breaking news: Steve Litchfield in being wrong shocker!

Ben Smith · 7 months ago

Dan Lane: Yellow card.

:-)

Ben Smith · 7 months ago

I think you're both right (ish) - for a certain sensor size 'field of view' is directly proportional to 'focal length', although what James is complaining about is actually the 'field of view'.

The impact on the 'field of view' of the sensor size is called the 'field of view crop factor' or 'focal length multiplier'.

Nico · 7 months ago

That's why I said "for a fixed sensor size". The correct term is indeed "field of view", but focal lenght is more commonly used as a measure of the view angle of a lens.

But yeah, what Ben said :)

James Whatley · 7 months ago

Whatever it's called, it's crap on the 5800 and it looks like the N97 is no better either!

:P

juliancooling · 7 months ago

Mr Facts on Demand.

Actually this might make a good point of comparison in a phone face-off: Nokia great lens and pixel count but impossible angles. iPhone bad a everything optical and now proven by Smithian science.

DominicTravers · 7 months ago

It is likely this is caused by the way Nokia have decided to record video on the device. My guess is that the video is a native resolution 16:9 crop from the centre of the camera chip rather than an interpolation from the info on the whole chip. This in effect creates the digital zoom effect you are seeing. The processing overhead to provide the interpolation from the full chip sensor to the 16:9 video recording may be beyond the capabilities of the CPU or it may just be that it chews the battery up when it tries to do this.

Micky · 7 months ago

I will let you know what I think once I get my N97 in my hands, and start having a play with it.

Julien · 7 months ago

Hey guys,
checked on an N97 and compared with a 5800.
Angle is wider on N97.

I'd need to test the audio recording vs distance vs picture size...

Cheers,
Julien.

SteveRowlands · 7 months ago

This is quite a concern of mine, but I don't think it will put me off buying an N97. However, James is right to bring this subject to light, as I'm sure it will irritate the shiv out of some people.

For me, I can put up with this irritation because I shoot photo's rather than video's.

James Whatley · 7 months ago

See I'm more of a photo fan too - which is why I'm waiting for the N86.

:)

SteveRowlands · 7 months ago

Ordinarily, I would have agreed, and gone down the same route. However, I just fancy something a bit different to the norm for a change. I figured that if I hate the N97 when it comes, I'll be able to eBay it at a fair rate, and buy an unbranded N86 instead. :-)

Ben Smith · 7 months ago

As irritating as this is - and obviously I witnessed it first hand - could this be a design decision. Nokia decided most people filmed stuff 'far away' and preferred the 'zoomed' effect?

James Whatley · 7 months ago

Doubtful. Can't see the logic myself.

More likely stripped down 'normal' recording to save tech/effort/cost.

Julien · 7 months ago

James, can you tell me how we could do that?
Cause honestly, I don't see where it would be possible and provide such a "side effect".

James Whatley · 7 months ago

I'm not sure what you mean?

Julien · 7 months ago

That saving "tech/effort/cost" on such things wouldn't have an impact on the "angle" of the picture, besides of course using a different lens.
What matters here is the width of the lens, and on the N97, it is wider than on the 5800. You can have the device closer to you when taking self videos for example.

I took a picture couple days back but I lost it.
I'll take an other one tomorrow.

Mark Guim · 7 months ago

How about recording it on VGA mode on the 5800/N97 to zoom out a little bit, and then publish it as widescreen when editing the video later like on iMovie?